The Bible does say where God comes from: He was always. The point of there needing to be a begining is a bad one because why DOES THERE HAVE TO BE A BEGINING? That is our simple human minds. If there was a big bang were did the matter come from Second the stars would spin in the same orbit if it was a random explosion they don't obviously you don't study Phisics Entrappy states that all things go from order to chaos not the reverse that the big bang states and finally the man who created the big bang theory was religious and trying to prove the bible correct
Why would the stars spin in the same orbit if
there was an explosion? If there was an explosion, a Big Bang, then
all matter would be flying out out from a central location; the red shift
proves that this is in fact happening (all stars are moving away from each
other. I have, in fact, studied Physics, and I did pretty damn well
at it. The layamn's definition of entropy states that, in a closed
system over time, energy goes from an ordered to chaotic. This is
not the real definition of entropy. Real entropy is essentially equal
to total work divided by a change in temperature. Essentially speaking,
there are no perfect engines, and there is always waste heat. It's
related to chaos from order. But this is not necessarily the case
all the time. Energy under the proper circumstances can go from simple
to the incredibly complex. Think of the human body. The human
body starts out as a simple cell, and slowly increases it's energy from
that single cell to the incredibly complex organization that an adult human
body has. Also, entropy states that there is waste heat from any
production...it doesn't say that there is always chaos resulting.
In the creation of the world according to natural laws (with the laws of
theromodynamics prodviding the direction), there will be some energy lost
as waste heat...but it doesn't mean that all energy will be lost as waste
heat (this is also true if the universe was created by the divine...assuming
He creates under his own rules).
So what if the man who first proposed the Big Bang was religious and trying to prove the Bible correct? The answers you find do not rely on your personal beliefs, they rely on the data you find. Charles Darwin was also a religious man, as was Friedrich Nietzsche. Most times your answers come out different than you believe they would or should.
The point of there needing to be a beginning is not an original point on my behalf. It comes from one of the greatest Christian theologians, Thomas Aquinas (I recommend you read him some day, he's simply one of the most brilliant men ever to walk the earth). He argued about something called First Cause. In a nutshell, this says that there had to be something to start everything else. He calls this God. But if we need to postulate a God to have created this universe, then who or what created God? And if He didn't require a creator, then why did our universe? Let's bring out Occam's Razor. If we can propose an intelligent, omnipotent being as a "causeless cause", why can we not propose a much simpler, non-intelligent event as an alternate causeless cause? Both claims are equally credible, and the latter one has the advantage of not adding unnecessary complexity.
Now, I don't know why there had to be a big bang. The most compelling reason that I can think of is that the universe is eternal, going through an endless cycle of explosion, expansion, contraction, compression, and explosion. Now, it boggles our mind to think of the universe as eternal, but it could be likely...it's just as easy for me to think of the universe as eternal (which has a purpose), as it is for me to think of God as eternal (which seems superfluous to me).
Thanks for writing,
Chris "Stu" Stuart
Lets just use Einstein as an example: If there is a God great if there isn't what do you lose
What do I lose? Well, I lose all the time
I've wasted in focusing on a life after mine, instead of focusing on this
world. I waste a life focused on the future, focused on something
outside of me, instead of focusing on me and the people I know and love.
That's what I lose. It's the Nietzschean denial of this world in
favor of a hypothetical afterlife.
And I don't think it's Einstein who said that...I've most commonly heard Pascal as being quoted for that...but I could be wrong.
Chris "Stu" Stuart
And we weren't talking about cost-benefits here,
we were talking about the logic behind our arguments for belief...were
you going to add anything to that, or just say "What can it hurt?"
Besides, do you think God wants people to believe because it's the safest
thing to do?
You are wrong it was Einstein I being a Christian am not allowed to force my belief on you but I sugest you see Contact which uses the same argument. I can not understand the logic of disbelif whatsoever espicially since almost everything in the Bible is proven in history of happening in some way or another and the predictions of Isreal's decscendants returning to their country and the city of Tier being desroyed both came true
I've seen Contact, I've read Contact, and the
movie adaptation of Contact perverted the message of the book; they didn't
want to offend anyone or seriously challenge anyone's religion...that's
what Hollywood does. Carl Sagan, had he survived, would never had
approved of that piss-poor ending.
I just explained to you part of the logic of disbelief...which you might understand had you made an effort to read or respond to any of the questions which I asked you. I have to be honest that I haven't heard of the city of Tier being destroyed, I don't know what you're referring to, but that's not a deep prediction. If you look at world history, most every city has been destroyed at one time or another. I'll tell you what. I'll make a prediction that New York will be destroyed some time during the next two millenia. If it comes true, can I have a religion based on me. Israel's descendents returning to their homeland? That's not a difficult prediction either. The Jews have a lot of history with their homeland, the Holy Land, and of course they want to return there. The fact that they did so does not prove the existence of God anymore than my parents going to visit or live in Scotland would.
The Bible also predicted that Tier would have
every stone thrown into the ocean. To avoid being killed by the country
invading them the people through the stones into the sea in order to build
a bridge. It happened in 1990 I belive. As for the Isreal comment Never
in the history of mankind has a country been run out for a millenium only
to return-mostly in the same year (1948). That would be like saying the
Indians will control America again after the Yugoslavian conflict. Also
The majority of the things the Bible mentions have been discovered by archieologists Noahs ark was discovered in 1990 Sodem was discovered three or four years ago along with a tablet that mentioned Gommorrah. Sevaral first hand accounts mention Jesus. One Hebrew account says he was a bastard son and was crucified for socercery
A greek philosopher accounted the sun blackining in April of A.D. 33
The old testement gave that date as the day messiah would die in the book of Danial. I have a friend who is an archiologist.
Please give me scriptural citations and factual accounts of everything you've just sent me...the scripture on the death of the messiah, articles about proof of Noah's Ark, articles about Jesus (who I don't doubt existed...I never said that). Then, once you've given me this stuff, then we can have a nice conversation...but arguments from on-high or statements that "they found this" don't work well with me...and arguments from the National Enquirer don't work either.
The Jews are a unique group. Never before has a group been expelled from a country, gone through so much shit, and managed to survive as a distinct race. The American Indians are not a good example, because they have, for the most part, been assimilated into American culture. The Jews are fighting just as hard for their holy land as the Muslims and Arabs are. None of this is necessarily Biblical or necessarily shows the hand of God at work. Whip out Occam's Razor again, and God is just an unnecessary addendum to this argument. Occam's Razor gets rid of the extra things that aren't necessary for an explanation...and this is one of those cases.
Yes but the Bible Predicts this happening throughout
the begining of it!
Occam's razor states that the most plausible explanation is most likely to be true but that is not always the case it is plausible that snce 90% of the people in this country are Christians( or claim to be) that 90% of the people discussing the argument on the board are Christians and that's hardly the case is it? I never read the Enquier but from when I used to it was mostly celebirty dirt.
Refrences: KNBC did a show about noah's ark being discovered on the news some time ago.
It is common knowladge that at least 40 of the Bibles Kings were discovered.
Any arceology magazine will probably have something on Sodom (which by the way was charred when they discovered it).
I have heard the refrence to the greek philospher sevaral times including on a show called sheperds palace
The book of Daniel gives a prophecy of a messiah and an exact date (69 weeks from the book of Joshua's writingor 69 year weeks in the Jewish religion which lasted 7 years give me a day and i'll give you a better explanation of it).
The dead sea scrolls which are 4000 years old mention WORD FOR WORD what the Gospel says about the Crucifiction and give a date (A+E mysteries of the Bible).
In Revelation the Bible predicts the Euro dollar (ten nations shall have the same curency in Europe Greece became the tenth nation in 94 to accept the idea).
The Bible also mentions the tower of Babylon which was thought to be a myth for years but was in fact proven a true structure.
It also says in Genesis that life began in Africa which is what most scholars belive.
The LA times recentaly did an article on Mosses that stated many Jewish bones were found in Egypt receantly and that Mosses was proven to be an Egyptian name of Royalty.
As for Tier I need to find the scripture on it give me another day please
I can prove it was a real city though Check any Encyclopidia it was part of the Babylon Empire I belive.
Read Jesus was a Jew written by a Jew who converted to Christianity it mentions the Crucifiction and Jesus' mention by Jewish historians as a bastard child condemned for sorcerery.
So does it seem I am useing logic now?
Also have you noticed that the English empire fell apart when they refused to help Isreal after ww2 but the U.S. who was responsible for Isreal returning home was lifted to great heights maybe a coincedence I don't think so.
I did not say in the same Orbit I said the same
Direction. The Big Bang theory (actually not a theory but a conjecture
a Theory is something that is tested under expermintal conditions) State
that the first matter was spinning as it exploded if it was spinning than
all the planets and stars would spin in the direction of the first mass
which they do not. Another refrence BTW the Bible mentions Dinosaurs it
in fact mentions Behemoths which were great creatures who were destroyed
by God and Dragons. If the Universe is eternal why can't God be? What is
the pupose of the universe being Eternal?
What created the Big Bang theory since you aked what created God?
Fredrick Nietschze also had a VD which causes Insanity
The man who thought up The Big Bang is stilll A Christian and himself said he belives the Big Bang proves there is a God don't ask me how just read his book it may explain (I only read sections of it)
Who's to say that God is more complex than a Big Bang theory?
You apparantly are agnostic and not an atheist according to some of your statements.
One final question for you to ponder: why is it that men and women who have never met and never heard of the experience of others have reported the same thing when they are recesitated after being brain dead? None of this "that's what we want to see when we die" crap. We all wouldn't want the same experience would we? Considering many people I have heard this from were atheists before hand. I think they would prefer to see nothing. There are also acounts of people saying word for word what a person in the same room as they are said while they were clinicly Dead. I have heard of some that even spoke languages (even one case when it was Galic) when they had never heard them! One other thing: my Mother had a nde where she told me what I did while she was clinicaly dead I think this is extra ordinary (I was jumped the day she was under and she told me about it)
[Note: The "nde" that his mother went through was a "near death experience"...it took me
over a week to figure that out...he brings them up later as well.]
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